80's Arrowbolt 21 'Project'!

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Re: Arrowbolt 21 'Project'!

Postby rbcoomer » Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:57 pm

Hi Mike,

This is the iconic image that triggered the Arrowbolt interest:-

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I would like to keep her as original as practical, but the one thing I may add is a stainless radar arch - similar to the Fletcher ZS as this would minimise holes for antennas etc.

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The door to the cuddy is a modification I think too as both it and the port side panel are tinted glass/perspex whereas the original brochures all appear to be louvered wood. The cuddy hatch is opaque however so it's possible someone fitted because it was too dark? Portholes would be nice, but never fitted to this model as far as I'm aware, so will probably refrain from adding any.

I'd quite like to know the year if your contact at Fletcher has any clues? The rear seat is one piece, which if original, may offer a clue (brochure from 79 shows a three cushion rear bench), as might the deck fitments shown in the pictures perhaps? I'm leaning towards early 80's, but I believe they made them from around 1973, so she could be older?

Regards,

Robin
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Re: Arrowbolt 21 'Project'!

Postby JORIDAPILOT » Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:39 pm

Wow, this seems to be quite a project you have embarked on.
The very best of luck, a braver man than me gungadin, as they say :wink: keep the updates coming as you progress.
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Re: Arrowbolt 21 'Project'!

Postby rbcoomer » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:34 pm

JORIDAPILOT wrote:Wow, this seems to be quite a project you have embarked on.
The very best of luck, a braver man than me gungadin, as they say :wink: keep the updates coming as you progress.


:D

I'm hoping it isn't going to be that bad! If I come away with a solid boat plus some fibre-glass and gel-coat skills then I'll be happy - however long it takes! I've been watching the video's in this US epic http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=454460 (Hope the mods won't mind the alien thread :oops: ) and I'm confident that this is achievable. I expect mine will in many ways be more simple, but probably take longer as this guy seems to know his stuff! A friend sent me the link as a warning, but in actual fact I found it inspiring and now can't wait to get started! :lol: Cash-flow will be the limiting factor, but I'm in the process of a remortgage so I should be able to kick start the project with a couple of grand in a few weeks. In between the DIY on the house and work of course... :roll:
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Re: Arrowbolt 21 'Project'!

Postby Ed » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:36 pm

Its absolutely achievable, just need to keep at it have a firm plan and stick to it. Don't let 'spec creep' turn it into a never ending project. I'm slightly guilty of that!
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Adding a waterproof bulkhead?

Postby rbcoomer » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:36 pm

As some of you may already be aware, I'm currently restoring an early Fletcher Arrowbolt (21' inboard cuddy) and as this has become more of a rebuild than a restore, I intend to use the opportunity for some subtle 'modifications' and updating... 8)

Beneath the original cuddy floor was filled with buoyancy foam together with some under cushion GRP storage lockers. The very front of this section was open however and yet the foam filled section was sealed off aft with a GRP barrier from the main bilge (which ended just inside the cuddy area). After some 30 odd years (open boat) water had inevitably found it's way in - and although not excessive, had been drawn into the foam in a sponge effect. Once there, this was largely sealed in by the GRP cuddy floor adding weight and negating the purpose of the foam.

Either side of the engine bay, two boxed off sections were created with the bottom half of each also being filled with buoyancy foam. On top of this was a ply 'floor' topped with GRP forming two small storage areas - used for battery etc. These will be recreated. The main bulkhead between the engine bay and cockpit area stopped at about 3" above the keel - leaving a triangular hole such that the bilge under the cockpit ran through to the stern.

I'd like to change this layout and make the engine bay 'sealed' by taking the bulkhead right down to the keel such that any compromise of this section caused by a failed hose etc could only ever flood the engine bay and not the main sections.

Obviously this would mean adding a separate bilge pump for the cockpit area as any water from spray, rain etc would not be able to drain back to the main bilge in the engine compartment or out via the bung when ashore. I have however figured a couple of bigger issues:-

1) would I be wasting my time? If the engine bay flooded and overwhelmed the bilge, would the extra weight drag the stern so low that water would pour over the bulkhead or bust it anyway? How would I calculate this?

2) In order to access the engine for maintenance, the centre section of the new bulkhead needs to be removable! I don't think this is impossible and although space is limited, I envisage either an 'insert' that can be fitted from the engine bay side or a top 'slide in' section. These comprising perhaps two joined layers of GRP coated marine ply with the first made to fit the 'hole' in the bulkhead and the second over-sized, such that water pressure could not push this through?

If it helps, this is the current state of play... :mrgreen:

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...which will revert back to this...

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...and this is the original 'bulkhead'...
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I should add that forward of the bulkhead sits the fuel tank and rear bench seating (tank beneath seat base). I will be replacing the buoyancy, but ensuring that the sections are sealed and water cannot ingress. The vessel will be primarily be used as a family boat for extended coastal exploration...

Any idea's, pitfalls and other wisdom from the forum Sages greatly appreciated! :)

Many thanks,

Robin
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Re: Adding a waterproof bulkhead?

Postby Capn Jack » Mon Apr 23, 2012 6:48 pm

This is great stuff, but better suited under Readers Boats, I hope you won't mind but I'm going to move it for a reference. You'll still get great quality replies. :D

In fact you have two projects on the go, so if you open another Topic in Readers Boats under Fletcher, I'll edit it for you so it wil hopefully look ok. :D
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Re: Adding a waterproof bulkhead?

Postby Capn Jack » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:26 pm

I'd like to change this layout and make the engine bay 'sealed' by taking the bulkhead right down to the keel such that any compromise of this section caused by a failed hose etc could only ever flood the engine bay and not the main sections.


Arr the Titanic theory, yes it would work, but it is very unlikely that a hose would burst because one would assume you would check and replace all hoses when required. :wink: In addition, it would have to be a low lying one like the intake hose in order to sink you. The others should be above the waterline. Furthermore it is not a pressurised cooling system so it's very unlikely to burst, a hose will more than likely weep first. A number turns of black electrical tape will get you home.

If the engine bay flooded and overwhelmed the bilge, would the extra weight drag the stern so low that water would pour over the bulkhead or bust it anyway?


Absolutely. With the weight of the engine and water it wouldn't make a lot of difference if the bows were clear. In fact....now I'm guseesin here, but I think that the spread of water would be better than a concentration.

In order to access the engine for maintenance,


Now you have answered the question yourself, as Fletcher did when they built her. Access is paramount where possible. It makes life so much easier.

Whilst I fully understand that you want to create more safety on board, I think that adding a watertight bulkhead would create a more unstable environment. Just an opinion.
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Re: 80's Arrowbolt 21 'Project'!

Postby rbcoomer » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:31 pm

Thanks for such a well reasoned response! I think it makes the task in hand easier...

Thread now split... :wink:
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Re: 80's Arrowbolt 21 'Project'!

Postby rbcoomer » Mon Apr 23, 2012 7:50 pm

Apologies for lack of updates here - keep meaning to, but new job and other pressures seem to take over! Here goes for a bit of a catch up for those interested...

I removed plugs and confirmed engine turns over freely by hand cranking and then fitted a battery. Bilge pump and blowers work, but no sign of life from starter - slight voltage drop when key turned to 'start', so suspect sticky solenoid. Decided to leave dry for winter.

Sent prop off for a refurb, but suspicions on condition confirmed - too electrolytically corroded to repair. Old prop was a 17 pitch, which also seemed a bit course, so now have a new 19 pitch (not fitted yet). Will look to move to a stainless when I have a better idea of optimal pitch.

Tank out and in good nick fuel gauge wasn't connected so will need to run new wires and perhaps fit new sender. Have removed old one to test.

Removed top layer of starboard floor (there were two!), much wetter than expected! Removed fibreglass base layer and then lower floor - also rotten. Stringers appeared solid, but more on them later! New floor will be glassed before fitting and then glassed into place.

There is some buoyancy foam between stringers, but this can be wrung out so will come out.

Rear seat and fuel tank removed.
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A layer of paint hides a multitude of issues...
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The light coloured wood has the texture of cottage cheese! (removed with fingers)
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Starboard floor didn't 'look' that bad - just a couple of soft bits... :D
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However, knowing what lies beneath prompts some digging! Lifting away the fibre-matting...
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First layer of 'floor' gone, also started to remove tabbing from bulkhead - I wanted to use as a template so hoped to remove complete - limited success.
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And so on to the underneath layer... Bit harder going now as much more fibreglass. I think this was the original floor - top seems to be a later 're-inforcement' (read bodge job... :roll: )...
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Floor about 50% removed now, but needed to invest in a small circular saw or Dremel etc to cut away fibreglass where bonded to hull. Too heavy handed to continue with jemmy, screwdriver, hammer and chisel! :o (abandoned the latter in favour of screwdriver early on as not quite as sharp/destructive!)

Peeling back the fibreglass under the starboard side of cockpit floor reveals a kind of laminated compost! :eek:
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Central blockboard floor out. Whilst much of the wood here was OK, the laminates both sides were rotten and thus the floor had 'sunk' between the stringers.
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Buoyancy foam under the cockpit floor is saturated - look closely for the puddle where foam has been pulled out.
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..and so on to the port-side floor...
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First look under the rubber matting and all looks ok - it isn't however as will be seen later when the port side is also cut out.
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The wood that isn't rotten is waterlogged.
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Like the floor itself, the floor carriers are not completely encased in fibreglass - just tabbed in along the edges. Thus water has largely done it's worst, but at least the bilge gets some air, so rotting was slower here.
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With a little help from a screwdriver and hammer to start and a jemmy to progress, the tabbing pulls away from the stringer.
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Good job that tank isn't wooden... :D
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Continues...
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Re: 80's Arrowbolt 21 'Project'!

Postby rbcoomer » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:07 pm

A bit better prepared for what was in store by this stage, having invested in one of those angular sanders with a saw attachment. Left an already slimming wallet £100 lighter by the time I'd added a few extra blades, but worth every penny! I can now cut the fibreglass away with a much greater degree of accuracy and vari-speed allows more control over how deep to cut. This was essential as I wasn't sure what was below or how far back the plywood had gone. I went for the cautious approach and then had to cut more away but preferable to removing too much! :)

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As can be seen from the pictures, the power tools have enabled much cleaner and quicker progress. Most of the floor is now out, as is the centre section. On the whole, pleased with progress but have confirmed a few fears along the way - none of them much of a surprise, but a bizarre streak of optimism had remained alive - now quashed...

1) The stringers will need replacing - not really a surprise and I'd kind of made my mind up to replace them anyway.

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Red line shows where the bulkhead was, the green indicates exposed end on stringer... :?

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The wood seemed pretty solid but very wet. :(

2) The cuddy floor will have to follow in the tracks of the main cabin. This isn't because it was wet, quite the opposite, but because the rot was likely to have tracked through the divide. Unfortunately, although the floor doesn't run right through the foam 'sponge' does.

Best seen on Port side - where floor, whilst still rotten, wasn't nearly as decayed...

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Red line to illustrate where floor ended.

The stringers here were wet at (1), but dry at (2) where I have removed panels of fibreglass.

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3) The engine bay ends of the stringers had no fibreglass encapsulation whatsoever! I was astonished by this as it has allowed moisture in the (rotten) bulkhead to track back under the fibreglass. Just as bizzarly, there are small air pockets below the engine bay fibreglass where 'shelving' has been done - unsurprisingly this is rotten beneath the fibreglass. Difficult to explain this, photos illustrate better!

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In summary, looking more and more like a bare hull rebuild! There will be some challanges in the next few months as the V8 is now certain to be coming out for floor/mounts and the transom is unlikely to have faired any better (more on that later)... Unfortunately, I in my wisdom (and to be fair limited space :| ) - have shoved her, stern first into a very restricted space. :( Lifting that V8 up to a height of around 9' and then backwards and sideways on a diagonal of about 10-12' is going to require some engineering! I'm thinking hoist and some kind of track, but I'll need to construct that it as there's no way anything will fit in past the boat. Plan B would be to complete the cockpit and cuddy floors, lay down some extra ply layers on top temporarily, and then lift engine forward into the cockpit to facilitate work in the engine bay. Not keen on this as it would involve a join in the stringers at the bulkhead :(

Given the amount of saturated wood and foam removed so far, she will have had quite a crash diet prior to return to the water! Some of the foam filling also appeared a little sparse - Fletcher must have been on an economy drive the month this one was made... :)

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Underside of battery bay floor...

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...and finally, bulkhead 'fixing' for fuel valves... (yes that IS a hole)

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Next on the list was cuddy floor and bulkhead and although the stringers run through the bulkhead, they were reduced in height to around 1" from the bulkhead aft and similarly, the timber used for the engine mounts and engine bay forming, extend just 1" forward of the bulkhead. Basically, it appears the bare timber framework was laid out and the tabbed in/glassed over as required (standard practice I believe?). The downside of this method was that once moisture had penetrated at any point, it tracked through and soaked all the timber throughout. :cry:

Trimming off the tabbing from the old floor - perhaps should have cut closer when I removed floor, but being a 'blind cut', decided on the cautious approach. So this was the clean up.
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Cross section of bulkhead - the black area to the right being the engine bay and the left half the starboard floor stringers. The original was 9mm ply, but I intend to double this given that the bulkhead is only half-height (top half being formed by rear seat to facilitate engine access).
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Having started to cut away the stringers from the aft end, it became apparent that although solid/wet higher up, the bases had largely rotted away.
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Cutting down each side and then breaking away seemed the best means of removal - although solid, this wood was so wet that the vibration of the cutter caused liquefaction - with water oozing from the surface!
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Method used was to cut through the base of the fibreglass (into the stringer)...
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...then up the sides...
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...and finally, decapitate from behind!
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Once cut, a screwdriver prys up the fibreglass...
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and pulls away from the stringer.
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A bit of cleaning up, one side removed.
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Both sides cut out enough for grinding back and glassing in new bulkhead. Note that the 1" protrusion of the engine bay carriers has also been removed at this stage. These will be replaced anyway and new ones glassed onto the bulkhead, but not through. Additional bracing at either end will compensate for any reduced latteral rigidity.
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The problem with the cuddy is obvious in this next picture. Although the ply floor ended just past the threshold, the stringers continue forward - as does the buoyancy foam - complete with it's water...
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Interior removed, cuddy floor looks solid and being fibreglass only (no plywood) you would think ok...
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However, having decided to remove I thought I'd best keep the moldings for future reference/reuse!
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Below the sculpted recess was wet - VERY WET!!!
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...so much so that it was a suitable habitat for a stowaway worm! :shock:
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However, the stowaway prize must go to these fellas who had obviously made home between the back of the dash and the cuddy bulkhead...
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...continued...
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Re: 80's Arrowbolt 21 'Project'!

Postby rbcoomer » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:17 pm

...and so up to April '12... :mrgreen:

As I mentioned elsewhere, I decided that doing the stringers in two parts was a bad idea and that the motor was going to have to come out - thus the outdrive etc too. I'm on the lookout for a cheap 'A-Frame Gantry' that I can assemble around the boat and then lift engine onto a scaffold over the boat. I also have a agreed a deal with a friend on a new-to-me galvanised trailer which he is dropping off during the June Rally. Space is limited, so I need to remove the old trailer from under the boat prior to this and get everything ready so the new trailer can be slid in below and the boat lowered.

Sounds simple... :roll:

Current position is that the drive is removed and sitting the that garage awaiting an overhaul, paint and general once-over. The stern is now resting on blocks and the trailer has been lowered off of the axle stands back onto it's wheels. The next stage is to remove the gimble housing etc and also construct a couple of timber 'cradles' to support the mid and forward sections of the boat as the old trailer is extracted.

And so to the pics... :D

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Ooo 'eck! Who's idea was this?
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A bit of anti-roll added...
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Gently does it...
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Gone!
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Healthy...
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Fairly clean here too...
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So that's why that didn't work then... :)
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It's an Alpha One Gen One, but not much chance of finding a model number I fear!
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A bit of a clean up needed here.
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Probably a bit more than a buff-up with a wire brush too... paint stripper perhaps?
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Splines ok - Prop end...
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...and drive end.
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Nowt more than a bit of surface rust on the UJ.
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Where do I start? :)
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Having made the decision that although they seemed solid, the stringers would be replaced not patched or joined, I removed the facing fibreglass and proved to myself that the decision was justified! Now removed the forward starboard side and will hope to do the port side and what I can of the aft sections during the week. There will be a few days of cleaning up and cutting back the excess fibreglass to do and some extensive cleaning before the reinstatement phase begins... :)

Much of the afternoon Sunday was spent labeling cables, removing engine ancillaries and removing the last of the rotted plywood and buoyancy foam in the stern section. Once the rest of the stringers are out, the gimble housing, transom shield and engine will be the next to remove before the transom itself is removed via the inner skin (the outer flibreglass skin will be left untouched to maintain structural shape)

One thing is now certain - 20kg of resin ain't nothing like enough... :rolleyes: Perhaps 80kg will be nearer the mark??? :shock:

Facing layer of fibreglass removed
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...and simply fold forward to remove...
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It almost made it one piece but literally fell in half!
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Not much left of cross sections.
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Outer stringer - not quite a bad.
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...and on to the engine bay...
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Starboard side opened up.
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'Wood' from transom...
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Are you supposed to be able to push finger into transom? :D
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Manifold looks ok and water jacket seems clean.
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Riser in good nick...
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Port side cleared
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End of day - time for a brew and bite to eat...
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Hopefully a couple more weekends progress before gigs, rally and boating take priority!
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Re: 80's Arrowbolt 21 'Project'!

Postby Matt13 » Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:34 pm

Wow! Talk about a labour of love, you must have so much patience. Really looking forward to following this thread, keep it up!
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Re: 80's Arrowbolt 21 'Project'!

Postby Ed » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:05 pm

Yep, Madness. Not at all surprised however from seeing the original pics.

Everything will need to come out on that. Hopefully you'll be able to rip out the transom without chopping the top of the boat of, but I don't envy you at all, that's a huge job as your essentially starting again from a moulded hull. You must have a lot of spare time!!

As regards to bulkheads etc I've made a decision any boats I do in future, to ensure water has a way out of everywhere. Sure that means there is also a way in. But its much easier to allow water out and be prepared for it than to try and stop it getting in which as you can see Fletcher failed to do. Just a couple of decent bilge pumps will do all you need. Don't make the engine impossible to service either, I don't think a solid bulkhead is a good idea, but wow I can't wait to see how you get on with this!
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Re: 80's Arrowbolt 21 'Project'!

Postby Capn Jack » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:17 pm

Well said Matt and Ed. :D

Unfortunately, most boats will look a little and I mean a little like this even after 10yrs hard use. Older boats didn't have the technology which we have today for proofing wood etc. and some are even made completely from glass.

I completely agree with Ed's comments about water exiting either by evaporating or other means. This is the reason a lot of other older designs work. In fact we knew about water intrusion in the 1500's, when the Mary Rose sank off Portsmouth, but she was 34yrs old... :mrgreen:
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Re: 80's Arrowbolt 21 'Project'!

Postby rbcoomer » Mon Apr 23, 2012 9:49 pm

Thanks for the enthusiasm and feedback - I have to confess that I'm enjoying every minute of this! (Must be something wired wrong upstairs :roll: )

The 'spare time' sadly isn't nearly enough and with a full time job plus two self-employed ventures and young family, goes some way to explain why it's taken 8 months to get to where it is... I suspect the next phase will be limited as much by wallet as time! That said, I set out with the view that it will take as long as necessary and I won't cut corners so even if it takes another two years then so be it. The decision to keep the 14' too was with this in mind and to offer some water based R&R. :D

I think the challenge will be the prioritisation of work and I suspect there may be a few afterthoughts that require some rework, but hopefully not too many. :lol:

Modification/enhancement list is quite extensive - windows in cuddy (I have these already); 12v diesel heater ducted to cabin/cuddy under side floors; lower floor section in centre of cuddy as per the later designs (will also facilitate a port-a-loo); stainless radar arch (similar to ZS); anchor locker & bow rail. There are other smaller items plus more usual 'mods like sound system and lumishores ( :shock: !) - and some will no doubt provide a challenge to accommodate. The overall aim is to maintain as much of the original style/character as possible and yet modernise where practical. Intended use will be as a compact and trailable coastal cruiser that can be used to a greater or lesser degree throughout the year... 8)
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