VERY VERY VERY Bad Friday 13th

[Chestersaurus]

Police just took the boat. Part of project kracken, it was stolen from wales/cheshire 10years ago. Only tracked it because i was selling.
Where do I begin?
I had the boat a year, done alot of service and work to bring it up to scratch for the season. Went out in march, just after service and all the time and £££ spent over the winter was made worthwhile. In fact, I would never have put it for sale if a business opportunity hadn't presented itself. I thought i'd test the waters so to speak and if it didn't sell, well it was fate to keep it and seek funds elsewhere.
Turns out Friday the 13th wanted chip in on the "Fate" game.....

"Sea Police" phoned me this morning, came to my work and explained the story. Boat was spotted on ebay/apollo duck/boats outboards by original owner, and the police then used me as a pawn to confirm the boats I.D. Then they tracked me down personally and last night confirmed the boats I.D.
This morning I had the call, and they met to explain that, basically my boats not mine and going back to the original owner it was stolen from; and the best bit was he was already at my marina ready to take it away.
Firstly, I would point out that the "Sea Police" were excellent, kind and very understanding given the fact of my situation. I am truely appreciative of the warmth they showed me, as i was frankyl ready to explode.
Secondly, MDL MArina at Northney, UTTERLY BRILLIANT! They would not let the police simply ride off with it, and made contact with me to confirm the situation. They protected my interests and were very kind again given the circumstance.

Yes its only money, yes i know i was selling, no I dont blame the guy wanting his property back (anyone would be the same) but thats not the point. The point is, i'm out of pocket to a 7k+ tune, and some low life scum has caused that. Insuace will not pay, as according to TowerGate it was a stolen craft so not mine. Even though they insured it.... I digress!
Point is, without finding the culprit of the VERY fishy circumstance *(which i cant fully divulge for police reasons i'm told), I'm now left the loser.
Apparantly boat was not insured previously, so whilst they might have lost more in the long run, least they have something to bloody show for it now.
As i said, i dont blame them and wish them well with the baot they originally cherised (i imagine), but it leaves me boatless and without any money! I know boats are money pits, but you've always still got the damn thing. I could spit feathers, if I ate feathers.....

Sorry for venting, but I'm stuck at work with no-one else here to relate to a boat loss. I hope this doesn't dampen the weekend spirits, but I just wanted to share my story.
The only positive is my business has a new direction, I will be developing a boat security company from the ashes. I'll give all details as it develops and who knows might earn enough to buy another boat. But if it helps one person or prevents this situation it'll worth my effort.

Have a good weekend to you all, regards
Boatless

[Matt13]

Bloomin eck! That is really bad luck. Sorry to hear that, I hope the police can catch the thieves that sold it to you and prosecute although I doubt it. Good luck with your business venture. Don't worry about venting on the forum that's partly what they are for and I would be fuming so vent away!

[mlines]

You might want to drop a note to "jfm" on the YBW forum. He seems to have inside legal knowledge of the insurance industry and has on at least one occasion got an insurance company to change their mind when they told the client that he was not insured.

[Chestersaurus]

Thanks Matt.
I bought it off a genuine seller, and he did before him.... theres quite a few years selling history to go through.
Unfortunately from a "Legal" stance, the only person I can get money from is the thieving toad who originally stole it; 10yrs ago, I hold little hope.
Reality is, after the git stole it and sold on, every person who "owned" it afterwards was actually classed under the fraudulent act... or so i've been told.

Naturally insurance company wont cover, which in fairness I wouldn't expect it to really. Because it was a private seller not dealer, in the last 3/4 owners of it, there's no recompense; the buc stops with the last person in the chain i.e me!
I can only get claim back from the "original" fraudster,as everyone else has had their monies repaid theoretically; passing the "bad debt" on effectively.

The weird thing is, I feel like the original owner should give me some recompense; not for the whole thing but certainly the recent service and new engine equipment (leads/ plugs etc). I know if it was shoe on other foot i'd not pay anything, and there is no legal obligation as it is legally their boat still (apparantly).
What a massive pile of shi........

Thankyou for the tip mlines! I'll do that now....
Need a rum

[betty boop]

thats a total Sh't and I bet words cant explain ur anger.

Im sure you've thought of this but was the original owner insured? if he was the boat isnt legally his, if he was paid out it belongs to his insureance co. and he will have to repay his original claim in full - Unlikely it was worth ££££ but not insured? he could be willing to compromise on a return.

The police wont care about that being civil over criminal etc etc, its another crime solved but you have a right to recover ur loss and the original insurance co may look favorably on ur plight given the time lapse and PR etc.

It could even be a scam- loose ur boat, claim and then get it back, it has happened before with cars. You could be a real git and launch a counter claim against the guy that sold it to you in the civil courts.

Sorry to ramble it dont help much - but do get some advice to get you money back. keep us informed etc.

[rbcoomer]

What an awful injustice! I've heard of similar with cars many years ago and always wondered how they got away with taxing, MoT etc, but a boat has no such required V5 or whatever and as far as I'm aware, no real means for a buyer to check either! Do they offer HPI checks or similar on boats?

With that in mind, there's also the remote possibility that the original owner 'sold on cheap' to a mate and declared 'stolen' as a scam. Wait a few years and hey-presto, boat surfaces and can be reclaimed - safe in the knowledge that it will have changed hands a few times and old plod has little chance of following the paper trail...

Perhaps I'm just cynical, but life seems to have that effect sometimes when you see someone fleeced like this.

I hope I'm wrong and plod follows the trail back to the lowlife that nicked and that they have some assets that can be seized to pay back your losses.

Towergate also have a case to answer IMO - they accepted your premium and if anything, as the part of the industry that deals with theft, they are in a better position to check for stolen boats than you are! They're also getting some bad press on claims and ethics at the moment (see some of the YBW forums and elsewhere in the press). I don't think I'd roll over and give up, perhaps worth seeking legal advice?

[baasboat1]

What a crock of sh*t

I would try the following, report the fraud to the Police and obtain a new crime number from them - you are now reporting the fraudulent theft of money by the previous seller. Launch a claim against him for your loss, he may well settle something for you to go away - or his previous boat insurer may cough up - its worth a go

Second - I would lodge a formal complaint against your own insurer, they have access to the stolen craft records and should have noted it was stolen when you first tried to insure it. Threaten going to the Ombudsman over their negligence to advise you of this at the time. Another line of approach would be to point out that you have paid the insurance premium to them for several years, and you now require it all to be refunded! how can they object to that, they are refusing to pay out as the policy was void, so they should at the very least return all your premium. You can also speak to the DAS Marine Legal Cover people about your situation and see what they can advise. You may have a legal claim for 'betterment' for the time and effort you have spent improving (not maintaining) the boat whilst you had it. Also think of any additions that there may be, you are entitled to remove these (e.g. a fishfinder or extra spare wheel)

Alos try a call to your household insurer - they should be able to put you through to their legal advice line for some independant legal advice as well.

I know these may seem pretty hopeless, but its worth a try. I wouldnt loose any sleep over goijng after the guy who sold it to you, he can do the same to the guy that sold it to him etc, thats just the way it is. Have you got any details of the original dodgy seller at all? a scribbled mobile on the back of some paperwork etc

I do feel very sorry for you

regards

Baasboat

[Capn Jack]

I am so sorry for your predicament, you must be absolutely devastated.

The police acted very swiftly indeed and it seems without taking all things into account, they are well trained in negotiation and therefore I suspect mainly to close a case, but possibly without taking into account the following. You have fitted items into the boat which you own and have an interest in, you have fixed broken parts, your property is your labour and your parts. You undoubtedly have invoices for them, plus the fitting charge's, which if necessary will have to account to an average marine technicians labour rate. Therefore I am in agreement with bassboat because you now have a claim on the boat as an innocent party. It's not a problem, you want your parts back and the labour costs for fitting them. Feeling sorry for the guy who had it stolen is admirable, however to be fair I hope he feels the same as you in that he has a better boat back because you have spent money on it.

I also agree that the insurance company as a responsible business insured the boat without checking if it had been stolen or written off.

The argument which bassboat speaks about......that is going after the guy who sold it to you is correct. From my motor trade days, if a car was stolen the responsibility of funds recovery would be that of the most responsible seller......which could be a trader,finance house or dealer.

[baasboat1]

you may be able to place a 'lien' on the boat for your interest in it, the police should not have recovered without you having taken legal advice, perhaps talk to the officers in question and ask them to hold the boat pending you taking advice< if a lien is the way forward you can get the boat itself arrested by a lien _ though that isnt the police but the 'receiver of wreck' if my fickle memory is still correct - im sure the capn will correct me if my memory has failed

[jokaboat]

Absolutely devastated for you and I really don't know what to say. This could happen at any time to anyone with a sencond hand car or boat I suppose but it's very painful for the poor victim at the end of the trail.

If it turns out the the first victim had claimed off his insurance the boat then belongs to that insurance co. Of you can find out who that is they may agree to sell it to you at a favourable price.

Don't let it go without a fight.

[JORIDAPILOT]

Very sorry tale, you must be devastated. All the previous posts give good advice but I would take a friendly manner to the previous owner initially, he could maybe help search back through the trail of owners until you get to the scumbag. If he is not interested then hit him with the "handling stolen goods" claim, ignorance is not an excuse as I understand it.
Towergate must stand up and be counted, there are a lot of people insured with them, including me, who will look to put their business elsewhere if they do not honour their policies.
And of course you want your parts back, they definitely do not belong to the original owner.

[ian h]

How come after ten years this has come to light?
As others have said did the original owner not claim on his insurance?

Have read on other forums that Towergate may well be in trouble and trying their hardest not to pay out on claims,
I am with Towergate and have been for many years but when renewal is up in October will be looking at the MDL recomended insurers GJW whom i got a quote from last year and were only £10 pound different to Towergate.
Know where by business will be going this year.

Really feel sorry for you as you have lost out through no fault of your own

[cookee101]

Police just took the boat. Part of project kracken, it was stolen from wales/cheshire 10years ago. Only tracked it because i was selling.
Where do I begin?

"Sea Police" phoned me this morning, came to my work and explained the story.

Who are the "Sea Police" I have never heard of them and I am fairly certain they don't exist!

[Capn Jack]

I think two people have mentioned the insurance thing, but this is from the first post, I'm guesssing the first owner hadn't insured it.

Apparantly boat was not insured previously, so whilst they might have lost more in the long run, least they have something to bloody show for it now.

The more I read this the more dodgy it sounds. Stolen 10 yrs ago, happens to find it on Ebay, "Sea Police" as cookee says who are they? I think he mean the Chichester Harbour Conservancy, gone through several owners, serviced and made better and they just take it??

[jokaboat]

Unfortunately that is the way it happens. By law the boat still belongs to the original owner, or the insurance company if one paid out for the theft. The current insurer has no liability to pay out as there has been no loss or theft. They may be able to give advice, and almost certainly will

This is a nasty situation but very common, especially in the car world. All that can be fought for is any equipment fitted, or any improvements made, by later owners.

Not much good news there I'm afraid but the other half is in the business (motor insurance) and sees this almost every day.

Chestersaurus, do you know who is currently holding the boat. You need to formally contact them with a list of your property that you wist to reclaim.

If it's that long ago that it was stolen the current owners may well not want the boat any more so may sell it back to you at a good price. If it was nearly new then I'd be amazed if it was not insured, That seems very odd. If so then the insurance company owns it. They certainly will not want to keep it so will be open to an offer.