starter issues

[betty boop]

would appreicate any pointers in my fault finding quest, when I first turn over the iginition I get a click form the starter and no turn over, 2nd attempt she turns over and starts. Last time I changed the starter as this brand of Maxum is prone to water leak thru the blower vents located above the starter and it got very wet (but wasnt the fault) I'm almost sure this one hasn't (albeit a little damp at time) but the problems back and I'm at that stage where I've done all I did before and nothings changed

Dampness has caused some cable ends & connectors to go rusty so I've cut em off & replaced , cleaned the terminals but still get the click no turn over - 2nd attempt start scenario- (only one left is the main earth lead on the block) but in the absence of obvious faults, loose wires etc, I'm wondering where I should be looking next. any thoughts looking for something obvious I may missed or to look at?

[mlines]

Are you sure the click is from the starter and not the solenoid? There is usually a small solenoid on the side of the engine, mine has previously failed and needed replacing.

Martin

[jokaboat]

+ 1 for the solenoid.

[baasboat1]

make that +2

Sounds like the solenoid to me as well, you can check by being very brave and shorting it out with two screwdrivers - though make sure you have well ventilated the engine compartment or we will be seeing you on the news tonight as a piece on 'silly boater blows himself up testing solenoid'. On second thoughts dont try that at all, you will blow yourself up!

[Rinker]

Sounds like solenoid to me. They can usually be taken apart and the contacts cleaned.

[Ed]

Sometimes solenoids are part of the starter. Is this not normally the case with an I/O?

[Rinker]

Your'e right Ed, the solenoid is nowadays usually attached to the starter and includes the mechanism for engaging the dog.
The solenoid is easilly recognised as the part where the main leads are attached. On most solenoids you simply undo the nuts that hold the leads on the threaded post then undo the nuts at the base of the posts. The body the usually just slides of revealing the mechanism.

[Capn Jack]

As Ed/Rinker has said, solenoids come with the starter, however that doesn't mean it's ok!

Buy a good multimeter, Draper are the best..... and check the voltage across the terminals to the solenoid, should be about 12.7V ish. This will give you a clue to whether you are getting full energy to the starter at first turn.

Several things affect starters on boats, damp, battery, wire corrosion and the throttle lever in gear. Unlikely it's the battery if it turns over freely, if it was the throttle lever it would not let power go to the solenoid.

I think the solenoid terminals are either very slightly corroded or there is not enough current on the first turn to throw the solenoid spindle to actuate the high tension to the starter. This points to your obsevation that the earth is poor or the spindle is sticking inside the solenoid.

[jokaboat]

The trick on old Fords on a cold day was to open the bonnet, clout the solenoid with a spanner, jump in and fire up, then jump out close the banned and go

[mlines]

We are talking about the slave solenoid, which is a common failure and is on the side of the engine in a mercruiser.

Yes, there is often a hefty solenoid on the starter motor but there is also a lighter one for some reason (just adds a point of failure into the circuit and yes, if fails)

This little baby....

http://buyboatmotorparts.com/Mercury-89 ... 65343.aspx

Keypart are good for them in the UK

[Ed]

I guess they have those to reduce the current and cable required as the high current solenoids on the starter can draw some quite hefty load.

However yep, I'd connect either a meter or even a light bulb to the big starter solenoid and see if that lights up if it goes click. If it does its the starter motor itself, if it doesn't its the other one...

[betty boop]

goodpoint re the upper smaller soleniod I did inspect it but although a little oily looked OK, as it happens I have a spare so will see how that goes if needed

back on the starter motor (with its own soloniod on top) -- for a less than 2 year old theres rusty salt all around it - not very impressive, and quite frankly a bad design, trial and error prevails - going ot replace a couple of battery leads and hope I dont have to go to last & worse case- strip out the starter and try to clean it up/replace.

one other question, battery cables and the like- strip back the insulator and the core is black-- seen this on the trailer board wiring as well, but why would copper get a black oxide on it- or is it made that way?

[baasboat1]

Copper, and in fact most metals will corrode when they are in contact with another metal and some form of electrolyte. In cables, you can get mositure between the core and the sheath at the cable ends, and given the high humidity confines of an engine bay prone to condensation combined with a salty atmosphere its highly likely to get some salty moisture in there, then bimetallic corrosion starts.
Copper corrdoes worst when in contact with:
Zinc
Aluminium
Carbon Steel
Cast Iron
Tin
Lead
and if you think what metal the cable is connected too (lead battery terminals/ steel battery connectors/ tinned cable ends etc) that probably explains the black stuff. In my experience, you can rub it off witha wire brush, but I prefer to cut a bit off back to shiny wire again and start from that again.

regards

baasboat1

[Ed]

That's why marine cables should in theory be tinned copper wires. That's obviously more expensive and so often not done it would seem.

The black look to the copper is just copper oxide.

[betty boop]

Copper oxide-- I thought that was green? as in statues ...